Compas questions

[J1111]

I am trying to perfect my version of Paco de lucias "Barrio la vina" and am having several problems understanding its compas.

I understand from previous posts that the accents can be counted in various ways and that PDL is playing around with the rhythm alot... but surely it just isnt fast enough to be an Alegria? Clearly it is (and Im in no way doubting that it is) but I just dont understand it. I thought that slowing down or speeding up the compas of a certain style changed it to another (such as bulerias por solea for example)

Or is it that its possible to play any compas at any speed you like as long as the accents remain the same?

Once again I am highly confused, its irritating also because until I understand what PDL is doing with the compas in this piece I dont think its ever going to sound right when I play it.

Thanks for any tips or advice.

[Payul]

Hi,
I just have listened to Barrio la vina and PDL is stretching the compas a lot.
The picado run is about twice as fast as the beginning of the tune.
It is sometimes mentioned as a compas elastico - the compas and accents are the same but the tempo is speeding up and slowing down -

Hope this will help you, but I would not panic, you are able to play this, so you will manage it!

[deteresa]

Hi,
I just listened to it. I think the weirdest thing he does with the compas is at the beginning, after the first full compas of 12 beats he plays a HALF compas of 6 beats before continuing on with regular compases. I personally have never heard that done before but he is Paco de Lucia, I guess he can do whatever the heck he wants huh?
Other than that most of the piece has pretty clear compas I think. Sometimes the silent 6 beat is a little tricky.
Good luck!

[Frontera]

In the Bulerias the half compas isn't all that uncommon; however in most cases a player will play another half compas before the end of the composition. It isn't unheard of for players of a more modern style of flamenco to play a half compas anywhere in their composition they please and never play the other half. The half compas is fairly common in the old Moron Bulerias, but the other half was usually always completed before the ending.

[J1111]

Half compases? oh dear all this guitar business just became alot more complicated!

I had no idea you could play around with the compas so much... this might be the reason why Ive never been fully satisfied with any of my own renditions of other pieces as I can play the songs technically (minus some of the really fast picados) but can never get it to sounds right overall. In some places I think my versions sound more like just a sequence of unlinked falsetas rather than an entire piece because I lose the timing in little places and it throws the whole thing off.

[Frontera]

The way I was taught was this was called playing in sixes and a pair of sixes was played which was in sync with the 12 counts.

[deteresa]

Yes, half compases in Bulerias, resolved or not, were and are somewhat common. This is the only time I've heard one in an Alegrias.... it shouldn't trip you up too much though. Just consider the first compas and a half as an introduction before going into standard compases. This piece is really a medley of a couple different 12 beat palos: Alegrias, Alegrias in minor, and there are parts that sound a heck of a lot like Solea. It is slower than most Alegrias but that should just make it easier right?