[Glamenco]

I'm a new member on this site so, first of all, I'd like to say hello to everyone.
So hello all!

Well, I have been playing flamenco for some years now, and I have enjoyed it very much so far.

I have learned almost everything I know from Juan Martin's flamenco methods. But not long ago, I read quite alot of stuff on the web saying Juan Martin's method has bad compas and easily makes you bad habits which will be hard to break.
I really like Flamenco and I think it would be a massive shame if I'd be learning it the wrong way right now.

So I was wondering, has any of you got some (negative?) experience using with Juan Martin's methods regarding bad habits or bad compas?

Thanks in advance!

Glamenco

[Payul]

Hi Glamenco, welcome to the falseta forum!

There is a lot of bad talking about Juan Martin, but the man lead a lot of people to flamenco, and we cannot start with Gerardo Nunez right?

if you practice now and than with a metronome, or tap your feet with the music, you know a Solea is in 12 etc, not much can go wrong.
Listen to your own music, is the best to do.

maybe it is a good time to go to somebody with another level, Paco Peña "Toques flamenco"for instance, old, but good.
Or the Encuentro serie, Paco Serrano is a challange, but playable, also Merenque de Cordoba, nice too, bit old stile maybe a bit easier....

Anyway, good to have you onboard!
Saludos,
Payul

[Glamenco]

Thanks for the advice and the welcome Payul.

I'll see if I can get my hands on a copy of one of the methods you suggested.
About the metronome, do you mean a normal metronome or one of those fancy flamenco compas metronomes?

[Payul]

Hi Glamenco,

You can use a normal metronome too, or tapping your feet, also Mark, a forum member here was so very kind to make one and upload it for us to use.
here is the link to the post.
My Simple and Free Flamenco Metronome Software

[Frontera]

Those who say things like Juan Martin teaches off or bad compas don't understand traditional flamenco. Juan Martin teaches traditional flamenco and the way he has it written down and demonstrates it is as accurate of compas as anyone else that teaches from books, CD's, and DVD's. My only personal dislike of Martin is his voice, appearance, and mannerisms. I think part of the JM bashing comes because he was overrated by his promoters. The best way to learn flamenco guitar is in person from a teacher that is rooted in traditional flamenco and doesn't try to teach music theory, but demonstrates, then has you play what they did until you get the compas in your head. A student needs to do lots of listening especially to traditional flamenco. If you haven't grown up with flamenco, the compas can only be learned by listening a lot and playing a little and a live teacher helps speed up the process. Good flamenco teachers, especially those from gypsy flamenco families are hard to find and usually expensive but certainly the best way to go.

If you can play the JM practice material along with his recording, then you are on the right track and have the basics to move ahead. Juan Serrano has out lots of good material. One criticism I have of Graf Martinez is his serious mechanical way of teaching. For me he is void of the emotion necessary for flamenco.

The problem with any books, DVD's, etc., is that the teacher cannot see what you are doing and immediately stop and correct problems.

[Glamenco]

I see, thanks again!
That metronome is really handy, thanks alot.

Thanks for your opinion on this, Frontera. I can play the material along with his recording quite well by now, so I hope I am indeed on the right track.

I made a little film of me playing the 1st bulerias from JM's book.
Yes, I know it's a little fast, but please tell me how you think I'm doing, it would be highly appreciated.

Me, playing the 1st bulerias.

[jim]

go with juan, he will get you there. good luck.... jim

[veet]

Best thing is to work with a living, breathing teacher. Where do you live? Go to Spain if you can, even for just a couple of weeks. Either way, find someone whose chops you really like and work with him. A real teacher's feedback can shortcut lots of errors and bad habits that otherwise will never get caught.

JM has been a start for lots of folks because of good marketing, and he speaks English. But for me, he's just not very flamenco. The soniquete, the feel, the groove is lacking, compared to Tomatito, Moraito, Gerardo, Paco Cepero, the Jero brothers, and hundreds of 15-year old guitarists in Spain.

For recorded/print learning resources, I like the Encuentro series. I have Moraito, Merengue de Cordoba, Gerardo Nunez, Tomatito.

[rooster]

I love his playing - I have the new DVD!

[Estanislao]

Originally Posted by Glamenco

I'm a new member on this site so, first of all, I'd like to say hello to everyone.
So hello all!

Well, I have been playing flamenco for some years now, and I have enjoyed it very much so far.

I have learned almost everything I know from Juan Martin's flamenco methods. But not long ago, I read quite alot of stuff on the web saying Juan Martin's method has bad compas and easily makes you bad habits which will be hard to break.
I really like Flamenco and I think it would be a massive shame if I'd be learning it the wrong way right now.

So I was wondering, has any of you got some (negative?) experience using with Juan Martin's methods regarding bad habits or bad compas?

Thanks in advance!

Glamenco

I come a little late to this discussion, but here goes.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. That Juan Martin learned his flamenco in Spain and knows traditional flamenco is beyond doubt I think. as to his teaching, that might be another matter. i have his beginners book and without doubt it is geared towards just that beginners. That being the case it is somewhat simplistic, but then, that is what one would expect given the audience it is aimed at. That hasn't stopped one of the songs in it, Tempestad, from becoming very popular with folks as evidenced by the tremendous number of postings of it on youtube. I kind of like that rumba myself and am working on it. I also know at least on of the techniques presented in it, the rasgueo, is accurate as transcribed, though it is very old school.

Another thing to keep in mind where Juan Martin is concerned is that he picked up a Ph.D. in music here in the U.S. and the theory he was required to master, both for composition and play, has altered his music along ways which conform to the expectations of the academic world. Whether that is to the good or bad is a matter of personal choice, so it is what it is.

I've noticed in the videos I've seen that he lacks some of the passion one would expect of a great flamenco tocaor. That is probably due to his university training and takes away from his play as far as I'm concerned. But, then, that is my personal taste.

That being written, Serrano does include complete guitar solos, which is what most students are after I think. I haven't checked out Juan Martin's method, which was highly recommended to me as butter, though the same source considered Serrano excellent and recommended him as well. You might want to look into Martin.

I am using another method, one published by Graf-Martinez and highly recommend by my source as well. He is a German flamenco artist who studied extensively in Spain and takes a more traditional approach to the music by emphasizing compas for accompaniment, the foundation for good flamenco guitar work. Graf-Martinez's method includes DVD's if you purchase the complete package and does an excellent job of explaining specific techniques, something my book by Serrano is sorely lacking in.

A belated welcome aboard

Estanislao