Would you shred??

[gato]

I don't know, I thought of this thread a week ago, and the question is: If you could shred, would you? I mean we all dream of it and eventually some of the lucky ones will indeed reach that goal....but do you consider that tasteful flamenco? Speed is of course an important element, but I have been thinking about it and some of the best flamenco I have herd is very tastefully done in a moderate tempo, and by that I recall the Cante Flamenco that I have seen done recently on youtube.

I was so impressed by the accompaniment I thought that it was rather majestic in that it was well stated without a lot of speed. Maybe I will feel different in a few weeks, but sometimes speed seems like a lot of static, and the poetic nature of the moderate tempo making interplay with the well stated nature of the cante that I had seen was better than most of the shredding I have listend to. Tough call. All speeds and themes are great when done with taste and an artistic manner rather than just another really fast guitar with something to prove.

What is flash, and is it necessary? Sure we want to learn to command the guitar, but should we aways be so fast and busy? Maybe it's better left unsaid, but you get the idea. So I put it to you.
Gary

[Teknoguitar]

Shred is a metal term and I am wondering if I am the only one wondering why you are even asking the question you are?

Learn about music my friend. Learn the harmonic structure of flamenco and you won't be asking this question which is really a question of technique.

Shredding means absolutely nothing in flamenco unless it is in compas'...I am assuming you understand compas'...

Are you talking about improvising over Rumba changes?
If you are interested in modern players who have incredible technique check out Daniel Casares, Antonio Rey.

Otherwise ask about shredding on a metal guitarist's forum.

[Payul]

Shred,
I heared from it,did not know exactly what the technique was,so I watched to some toutube films. It seems to be fast scales.
In flamenco fast scales are used and called picado.
Here you have a nice example from a picado run from Paco de Lucia in a Solea. watch 0.23 sec till 0.33.
enjoy! very nice

YouTube - Paco de lucia-solea Greaaaaaaaaaat

Payul

[falseta]

Originally Posted by gato

but do you consider that tasteful flamenco?

What is flash, and is it necessary? Sure we want to learn to command the guitar, but should we aways be so fast and busy? Maybe it's better left unsaid, but you get the idea. So I put it to you.
Gary

Hey Gary,

Great post! I read through your post and pulled out your questions in order to best answer.

Is shredding tasteful Flamenco? To do a super fast triplets scale run for a minute would not really make much sense in Flamenco. You could do it... it would be different, but there is so much more available in your toolset as a guitar player.

In rock or jazz you are somewhat limited by the pick and so the music is extended and modified via pickups and pedals. With Flamenco you have so much percussive elements as well as fingering techniques to use in order to derive a song within compas. To answer your question, I think it can be done tastefuly if it is done as a small part of a greater set of techniques.

Personally I do not believe speed is everything. To me its much more important when a player knows the timing and can play with it. For example adding a delay to provide tension then release with a great falseta because he/she has internalized Flamenco and his having fun with it.

Flamenco identifies a lot about a player, where he/she is from, where he/she learned to play and how much personal style and creativity he/she brings to the music.

To answer your second question, flash and speed should not be what a Flamenco guitarist is after. Mastery of the art from a region and teacher is a life long experience and should be looked upon as a journey to enjoy.

HTH

[at_leo_87]

well, it's not really about tempo. you can play fast but simple. i think you're talking more about playing busy, complicated, flashy falsettas?

i would like to be able to technically so that i have the choice to play either something simple or fast and complicated, whatever the music calls for.

[gato]

Yes, I know what picado is, yes I know that shredding is a metal term, and yes I know about compas. Let's get it right, I thought this topic would be open to interperitation, but it doesn't take much to get the inferance that I am making. I am obviously being loose with my language here and semantics is really not something that I am going to worry about with the lowest common denominator in mind. You don't have to be so exact and serious that you ignore what is obvious.

Guitarists play super fast and complicated, and I don't care, it's a topic for discussion, at any rate I think that it is necessary as long as there is a balance in the over all effect and aesthetic. But when it becomes flash that is intended to sell recordings and videos to beginning guitarists it's not of interest to me and I am not impressed with that. The artistic use of speed must communicate and express the tone and nature of the piece, instead of impress with the only purpose which is to make one a guitar god.

Maybe flash is necessary for survival, but if flamenco is for that, and the only people who are into it are the guitarists looking for someone to emulate, than it is not art and is dead, and for the purpose of the fantasies of lesser guitarists, and for vanity.

I would even venture to say that if anyone or any thing is killing the flamenco it's us. The art and purpose for storytelling, and expression has been turned away from guitarists for guitar vanity, and the extreme guitar playing seems to be what's on a lot of guitarists mind, so every time I hear someone say the the flamenco is dead, well......

There is real beauty in cante and dance and in rhythm as well as great letras. So much culture that goes beyond guitar playing I don't know why I am so obsessed with the guitar.
gary
I am just asking questions......
What do you think, are you with me?

[at_leo_87]

"Guitarists play super fast and complicated, and I don't care, it's a topic for discussion, at any rate I think that it is necessary as long as there is a balance in the over all effect and aesthetic."

"What do you think, are you with me?"

absolutely. but the same thing can be said with super slow and simple. it can be boring if not played with some fire.